Continued from the introduction.

<QUESTIONS> is everybody ready? please take your seats!
<Host1> We have a number of special guests with us today...
<Host1> as a matter of fact, here comes one of our special guests now!
<Host1> Sugar, would you like to give us a brief introduction to yourself and your experiences publishing zines?
<SugarRush> Um, well, I've been in fandom a very long time, since I was a teenager. My first slash fandom was K/S.
<Host1> Jo Ann, would you like to tell us a little about yourself?
<SugarRush> I started writing XF fanfic a couple years ago. My first long piece was an MSR novel. Then I went to Mountain MediaCon in Colorado (stop giggling, JoAnn!) and got bitten by the M/K bug. And the rest is infamy.
<Jo_Ann> I've been in fandom forever. My first slash fandom was also K/S--wasn't everybody's?
<Jo_Ann> I've been publishing zines since about 1990, starting with Blakes 7, going to multi-media fanzine Dark Fantasies, and have continued to expand into other (many others!) fandoms.
<Jo_Ann> Virtually everything I publish is slash, though I am equal opportunity!

<Host1> Lynda how about you?
<Lynda> I've been in fandom since mid-60's firstly MUNCLE, then K/S, Battlestar Galacrica, A-Team, now XF. I been connected to publishing from early 80's. When we used manaul typewriter and stencils to prduce newsletters and zines
<SugarRush> Ah, the good old days... <g>
<Host1> Lynda, MUNCLE?
<Lynda> getting high on correcting fluid
<Lynda> Man From Uncle
<Lynda> Illya & Napoleon

<Host1> We also have Celeste and Seah...
<Celeste&Seah> Celeste here... Seah & I are sharing a keyboard.
<Celeste&Seah> I started buying zines in the early 70s, writing in the early '80s, and publishing in the early 90's.
<Celeste&Seah> "The Gift of an Enemy" is the very first slash zine I ever published.... Only genzines before that.
<Host1> What about you, Seah?
<Celeste&Seah> Seah here: very new to fandom in general, started with Due South in 1994, assisted with the archives, my first (and only so far) zine was a Due South Gen Zine, "You Pay and Pay and Pay"
<Lynda> I've just finished reading The Gift of an Enemy - very good indeed
<Celeste&Seah> am currently in Sentinel fandom, and working jointly with Celeste on a new websites project,
<Host1> woiuld you like to tell us about your web site?
<Celeste&Seah> Well, hopefully if it catches on, It'll be a place to list both New and Used Zine for sales, Seek Zine Contributions, and post Zine Reviews
<Host1> We also have a special surprize guest!

<Host1> Guest1 from Australia has joined us today, Guest1, would you like to introduce yourself?
<Host1> it's about 5:20am in Oz.
<Jo_Ann> Ouch.
<Guest1> no, that's fine, I don't wanna gate crash, I was just hoping to talk to JoAnn
<Jo_Ann> Guest1, lovely of you to come online!
<SugarRush> Hey, what am I, chopped liver?
<Host3> G'morning Guest1. Daylight's burning, huh ?
<Jo_Ann> Guest1, what do you have in the way of new zines?
<Guest1> just put a new zine out yesterday, JoAnn :)
<Host3> Must be early for you, Guest1.
<Guest1> nope, I get up a lot earlier than this for work :)
<Host1> Well, lets start with some basic questions...
<Host4> Well, we're very happy you joined us!

<Host1> NEW QUESTION: Who'd like to give us a little history of Zines?
<SugarRush> I'll let some of the real old timers tackle that one...
<Celeste&Seah> Hmmm... our FAQ at has a bit of history on it. Whaddaya wanna know?
<Host1> was Kirk/Spock really the start of it all?
<SugarRush> Well, it was the first slash fandom I can remember reading -- way back when I had to lie on my age statement to get them mail-order. <g>
<Jo_Ann> Early '70's, multi-media, there was Warped Space. And I believe our friends in the UK were pounding the stencils as well.
<Celeste&Seah> Well, I believe K/S was the start of slash, but the first zines I saw were genzines. Of course, I was a wee tot and there may have been some zines around they wouldn't show me.
<Lynda> The first slash I saw was Man from Uncle in late 60's
<SugarRush> The first heterosexual adult ST zine was GRUP, I believe.
<Celeste&Seah> Warped Space started as ST, went into SW and ended up multi-media. All gen stories. Great zine.
<Jo_Ann> Leslie Fish's Shelter was the first slash story I can recall--came out in Warped Space #20.
<QUESTIONS> about what time?
<Celeste&Seah> Ooh, the slash probably went right over my head! Innocent moi.
<Jo_Ann> '75, '76.
<Guest6> I remember some pre-slash things, very tender K/S... remember the name Gerry Downes.
<SugarRush> There was some intense hurt/comfort stuff around before slash, though.
<Celeste&Seah> We are MEDIA zine publishers... mostly a female thing. First zines were mostly male-published reviews of SF pulp stories.
<SugarRush> HOME IS THE HUNTER was an excellent h/c novel.
<Jo_Ann> Contact was one of those early zines we called "pre K/S."
<Celeste&Seah> The guys also wrote their own SF pulpstories and self-published... Harlan Ellison was a fan writer.
<SugarRush> I think "Desert Heat" by Gayle Feyrer was the story that really turned me on to K/S. After that, I was a goner.
<Guest3> The Harsh Realam Guy?
<Celeste&Seah> When Star Trek rolled round, women started to gen involved. We dominate media fanzines in both writing & reading.
<Celeste&Seah> I meant "get involved" <g>
<Jo_Ann> And quality.
<QUESTIONS> so most zines are by women?
<SugarRush> I would say so. Slash zines, anyway.
<SugarRush> I never really heard of men writing slash until the net became popular.
<Celeste&Seah> Yes. I know some guys who write, but I don't personally know any who publish. Gay men write some slash, too.
<Lynda> Most fan-clubs are run by women too <g> that's what starts it all

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: Are there legal issues about publishing a zine?
<Jo_Ann> Legal issues are many and complex. When the C&D comes, you hide.
<Jo_Ann> Cease and desist.
<Celeste&Seah> Legal issues... basically if it isn't worth their suing you, they will leave you alone. Legal is what you can get away with!
<Lynda> Most TV Film companies ignore you, but there have been a few who got stroppy
<Jo_Ann> Exactly. Problem is, they can make life pretty miserable, the sorry blighters.
<Jo_Ann> In essence, it is copyright infringement, no ifs or buts. Even if it isn't for profit.
<Celeste&Seah> I'm glad lawyers cost so much at times like this.
<QUESTIONS> especially George Lucas, from what I hear?
<Host2> which ones have given trouble to publishers?
<Lynda> BBC - for The Rat Patrol
<Jo_Ann> Paramount is one we've heard of in the past few years.
<Celeste&Seah> Not sure that's true, JoAnn... it's never been tested in court. There are precedents that MIGHT make fannish writing okay, if someone would rule on it.
<QUESTIONS> Gang, go ahead and post questions directy if they are on-topic
<Jo_Ann> Have any gone to court yet? Seems everybody caves before an official letter.
<Celeste&Seah> Seah here: although there are precedents, until a fan with really deep pockets gets behind the fight, its generally going to be a case of people caving in and hiding once the C&D letters get sent, since your average publisher just can't afford to make the argument
<Guest3> Just want to know have you ever got a C&D?
<Celeste&Seah> Celeste here... fan
<SugarRush> I haven't, but I've only published one zine so far.
<Celeste&Seah> oops... fannish publishers are a poor group without deep pockets. <g>
<Jo_Ann> Not yet. <Fingers Crossed!>
<Guest3> If you say..had a lawyer in the family, would it be worth taking to court?
<Jo_Ann> Comrade: Questionable. The Law is the Law. :>
<Celeste&Seah> well, I *am* a lawyer, and I still couldn't afford it. It would take a lot of effort to win this, and more than one person making the argument.

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: How long does it take to publish a zine?
<SugarRush> As long as it takes to get submissions, edit them, format them and print them.

<SugarRush> Getting submissions nowadays is the tough part.
<Jo_Ann> Roughly a year, depending on submissions, writer getbacks (returning galleys, etc.). Printers these days are astonishingly prompt.
<Celeste&Seah> Celeste here: Length of time: 4 years for longest, 1.5 years for shortest time. Motivation and the job are key.
<Host4> Why is getting submissions difficult?
<Lynda> about a year usually
<Celeste&Seah> Seah here: about a year for the my first zine
<Guest4> So does the amount of secrecy needed to keep the copyright owners off your back make it harder to get subs?
<SugarRush> Because of the net. People get instant feedback on the net. Zines can't compete.
<Jo_Ann> Oh, yes, motivation is a key factor. I recall certain UK DS zines coming out at two-month intervals.!
<Celeste&Seah> Submissions are tough because of the internet: self-publishing on the net takes away from zines.
<Jo_Ann> Hear, hear! Sorry to see the net taking away from zines; zines still RULE!
<Celeste&Seah> Seah here: I've seen zines published much quicker than a year, but the quality varies greatly. I can think of only one publisher who publishes frequently, and does a really nice job. The others seem to be a bit on the sloppy side.
<Lynda> now the internet is around - before that we had more stories than we could us in one zine
<Host4> What are the advantages for a writer to publish in a zine?

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: Do you print them yourself or go through a publisher?
<Jo_Ann> The editor I'm thinking of did a superlative, bare bones job--well worth the money!
<Celeste&Seah> Actually, The Gift of an Enemy took only 9 months... ONE story is easier to format, etc. than a bunch of stories.
<SugarRush> And, frankly -- and this is a broad generalization -- but I do think the quality of fanfic has gone down in recent years.
<Guest1> Sugarrush - tell me about it! Specially in X Files!
<Lynda> I do wish people would get a beta reader if they are going to use the net to publish their work
<Celeste&Seah> Seah here: not sure what you mean by a publisher - I did the editing, had Celeste as a backup editor, took them to the Sir Speedy across the street for copies, and then we had a binding session in my living room where we heat bound the entire set of zines in one night
<SugarRush> The advantages of zine publishing...well, you get your story edited, usually by someone who knows that the hell they're doing, and you get it on paper, sometimes even with wonderful artwork.

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: The Net vs. Zines - is it a battle?
<SugarRush> It's a war. World War Three.
<Guest1> The net is the best thing ever for getting zines sold, btw
<Guest1> and for finding new talant
<Guest1> oops, sorry, i'll shut up now...
<Celeste&Seah> On the net, ANYONE can post. In a zine, you gotta convince someone that it's good enough (unless you self-publishe.)
<Guest4> This is very interesting to me. I would have thought that most people would rather be published in zines...
<Jo_Ann> The battle is perceived. The biggest problem is that many writers prefer the instant gratification to be had in publishing on the net. And they don't wish to wait even a year after a zine has been published before sharing their works there.
<Lynda> I think the main problem with zines these days is the cost of not only the zine but also the cost of postage and packing if the zine is coming from another country
<Celeste&Seah> Seah here: I don't really see it as a battle. The Net is bringing in many new authors, and although many of them are still only beginners, it takes time. I do expect better quality from zines, and thats one of the reasons I
<Celeste&Seah> I'm willing to pay for them
<SugarRush> You'd think so, MR. But sadly, that's not the case. Some fans out there have never seen a zine, and think fans who publish them are out to rip other fans off.
<Host3> I second that. Postage is a killer when you are overseas :(
<Celeste&Seah> Celeste here: also note, re: motivation. When a show is HOT,you get more & better writing. When a show is dying or dead, you don't get the best writers.
<Celeste&Seah> (I meant re: list-published stories.)

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: Why dod you think people think Zines are a ripoff?
<Guest5> Especially when you pay for the zine, the bank draft and the postage
<Lynda> We have yet to make money on a zine
<Host2> What is the average price of a zine? The prices I've heard, I wonder why they cost so much to produce.

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: Tell us about the Artwork in Zines
<Guest6> That's why I would ALWAYS prefer a zine.. the artwork in there:-))
<Celeste&Seah> It has ALWAYS been hard to get artwork.
<SugarRush> Artwork, ah...well, we have Suzan Lovett, randym, TACS...can't get their stuff on the net.
* Guest2 pours coffee into cups and hands it out - milk and sugar are on the table
<Celeste&Seah> Not just with the net, but artists are hard to find.
<Lynda> A lot of the first zines didn't have artwork - it was MUCH too expensive to reproduce
<QUESTIONS> what is the artwork like?
<Jo_Ann> Seems as though artwork cycled. In the early years it was usually pretty basic, simplistic even; throughout the middle '80s it became dramatically "professional" (no pun intended--well, hardly any); and now it's a mixed bag. You'll see zines with bunches, others with none. It can definitely raise the cost of a zine!
* Lynda takes black coffee and thanks Guest2
<Host3> Agrees with Guest6. Artwork illustrations by gifted artists is the cream of fanfiction imo
<Guest4> Have you ever refused to put any artwork in a zine?
<Jo_Ann> Guest4: No. But I will. :>
<Celeste&Seah> A great cover can really suck in the buyer!
<Jo_Ann> Depends, of course, on the type of art sent. Color is terribly expensive, for obvious reasons; pencil also because it's difficult to get a good reproduction.
<QUESTIONS> What does the artwork look like? drawings? photos?
<SugarRush> Pen and ink is usually very nice, and not too hard to reproduce. Of course, with computers now we can do our own half-tones.
<Jo_Ann> The best artwork these days comes already digitized!
<Celeste&Seah> Yes, I have loads of scanned cartoons for my next zine - I never saw the artwork, just got the images in my e-mail and can drop them right in to the master.
<Lynda> I had computer generated art in my gen zine published in '86
<SugarRush> I find I do better work, writing wise, when I know it's going in a zine. Knowing that it's going to be printed on paper, captured for all posterity, makes me work harder on it. But that's just me.

<QUESTIONS> NEW QUESTION: What else makes zines special, different from Net fic?
<Jo_Ann> GENERALLY, zines are edited and proofed; network is not.


Continue to part 2 of the logs.