The Boys Night Out

He6 notes that it is now 12noon!

<Host> All these new faces! This is great!

<He6> He1, as MSF list founder, would you like to ask the first official question of the day?

<He1> well, I don't know what I'd ask... ;)

Host will take the moment for a shameless plug:

<He1> I did notice at least 2 fandoms represented here though, so far. ;)

<Host> Don't forget, we have a chat here every Saturday at this time, plus on Thursdays, She11e time.

He6 has a question! (surprize surprize!)

<Host> She2 S. here is one of out devoted regulars...we've chatted a lot about Methos here!

She4 adores Kronos' more sensitive side!

<He6> What was the first pairing in your first slash story that you read?

<Host> for me, it was M/K, in "Bait/Deal"

<He6> my first was a Paris/Kim

<He1> that's easy... Jim/Blair... just 'discovered' slash last year...

<She2> For me it was M/Sk and Ethan's stories.

<He2> He6, for me that was Kirk/Spock

<She5> for me it was Mulder/other

<She4> Garal/Bashir.

<Host> What a great variety!

<He4> Professionals Body/Doyle

<She9> my first was M/Sk which I didn't like, but I liked the idea of slash and discovered M/K

<Host> Any real long-time slash fans here? I've only been into it for a year.

<He4> I am four years a slash fan - I know Bernice is perhaps 15 years.

Host bows in the old-timer's direction

<He6> Host, shouldn't the old-timers get a special prize?

<He5> I think that I've (unwittingly) found slash appealing and humorous ever since seeing an impromptu comedy act called "Star Trick"

He5 thinks that he saw Star Trick, maybe four or five years ago...

<Host> Maybe a gold-covered Character!Cock of their choice?

He6 offers them a Tickle-Me-Spock doll

He1 thinks of a question... finally. ;)

<He1> I was wondering if you guys were into the slash zines as well, or just strictly on-line stories. :) I like both, must have both. ;)

Host admits, never seen a print zine...and ducks.

<He4> I have read nearly mostly zines as I do not own my own computer but lend one from friend

<She2> You're not alone Host

<He4> Borrow

<He2> I used to, but it's difficult for us (Europeans) to get hold of them and not get bankrupt.

<She9> I prefer on-line stories.

<She5> I've never seen a zine either

<She4> I've had massive problems with customs confiscating stuff, so I don't do the print zine thing, at least not when they come from outside of Europe.

<She9> Yes, as He2 said, it's difficult to get that stuffer over here.

<He4> My best slash friend makes zines so I must like them

<He6> I've never read a zine, but hope to pick up a few at Media West.

<Host> Why do they confiscate zines, She4?

He2 is thinking of a question now, goes more into direction "printed material"

<She2> I've always been curious, but why pay for something I can get for free on the net?

<She4> They confiscated "The Nation", and they tried to confiscate some books.

<He1> She2, you can't get 99% or more of the online stories in zines. Zines are exclusive stories...

<He4> I have not yet read good stories on the net, but there is much yet to read.

<He1> plus the artwork, etc... nice stuff...

<He2> Does anyone know an url (or snail address) where I could find (slash) artwork, preferably X-Files?

<He5> That's interesting, She4 - SIlk just told me that she got the Eroica 'zine I sent her, with no problems whatsoever

<Host> Yes, I am really looking forward to getting some zines, see what they're like.

She6 just got interested in DS9 after buying a zine with gorgeous artwork for a US friend

<She2> I suppose, but the on-line stuff keeps me so busy. If I got into zines, I'd never go to work and then who would support my slash habit? :)

<She7> there is a site called nudetrek.com i think...some xfiles there...modified pics..i'm not sure how much slash

<He2> I know that one ;) hilarious, I may add ;)

<He2> I mean artwork like illustrations to stories and such.

<She2> Highlander has some beautiful artwork online. I wish we could get some in the x-files fandom.

<He1> Sentinel has online artwork too... ;) Hot stuff... ;)

<He2> I've seen those with envy ;)

<He2> But what about X-Files???

<She6> The TAC site He1?

<He2> I wished, X-Files artists would post to the net, She4.

<She7> mkra is the onlly other place that i've seen with artwork

She6 loved the Sen pictures even though I'm not a fan of the show (isn't shown in UK)

<She1> I've never seen Sen. When is it on?

<She2> Would it be totally idiotic for me to ask who here is from the MSF because I'm pretty new to all this.

<He1> Did I miss something?

<She6> I don't understand She1 - why no network?

<She4> SEA chat.

<Host> He1, would you be able to give us a rundown of who's from MSF?

<He2> <--- MSF

<He1> we have 40 guys subscribed now, which is beyond my wildest expectations. ;) It's awesome. ;)

<He1> I'm the listdad for MSF, and have a MSF site, and a general slash site, including slash or slash-friendly fan cons...

<He6> QUESTION: What do you think of cross-over stories?

<He5> ANSWER: Key criteria for me, He6 is "Seamlessness" - i.He5. an absence of hokey mechanisms to effect the cross-over

<She7> i like them too....in fact sometimes it has drawn me in to watching a show i hadn't before...that's why i started watching homicide

She6 agrees with She4 and He5 - they're harder to do well but can be very good

<He1> ANSWER: See He5 reply. :) How's that for cheating. ;)

<Host> Ahem...so, any guys here have questions for the ladies?

<He5> But it's true! HE5.She2.: HL/X-Files xovers are a natural, since there's the paranormal element wrt the immortals, to draw in Mulder's investigation

He2 enjoys Xovers when characters and background fit together, like XF/Millennium/Profiler... He doesn't like Xovers like XF/Voyager unless it's a hilarious parody.

<He5> Good example, He2: XF/Voyager

She9 doesn't dare to say anything about X overs

<He5> The thing is, if the xover is _really_ well written, I can entertain a timetravel or a VOY/XF kind of event... BUT-

<She6> anyone reading Wombat's new XF-Highlander x-over?

<She6> I was saying nice things about you He6 :)

<He2> Those setting usually don't attract me otherwise.

<Host> #1 - How do you deal with it when female writers "get it wrong" with the plumbing, or how a man reacts in a sexual/romantic situation?

<He7> The ones that I like at the X/Kalifornia/Playing God crossovers, but I have never seen the movies

He5 ponders Host's latest submission

<He4> Host: I do not mind mistakes is there is so much variation naturally.

<Host> Good point, He4!

<She2> But do you write and tell the author if they write something impossible?

<He2> I mind mistakes if they're really *gross*.

<He6> have you ever read a story with a scene/act that was physically imp0ossible?

<He5> Part of my ambivalence about that Host, is that I hate to second-guess whether they've actually "gotten it wrong", or whether that's in fact the way that they really wish the guy-characters would behave

<Host> Exactly what I've been wondering, She2! Ladies, do you want feedback on any technical plumbing and other boo-boos?

<She2> definately!

<Host> I've heard that point taken before, He5. I can see that.

He2 first finds out whether the author wants to hear about that feedback.

<He4> Most impossible acts are when a partner is shot or wounded and has sex soon after

<She6> hmm, do the people here prefer more technical stories (as to details) or more emotional/psychological ones in which the sex is more implicit?

<He1> I go for emotional, romance, sap... ;)

<He4> She6: I don't mind implicit or explicit according to the story

<Host> That's a good idea, Mulder! First write to the author about general feedback, and then ask if she'd be open to talking about the more technical, gender-related side.

<He1> inserting tool a into slot b is not a story... ;)

<She2> I love the emotional..

He6 wants to know the opposite... Why do women write these really explicit scenes?

She6 wondered if it was a gender issue?

<He5> Well She6, from experience, I think that I've enjoyed the more implicit stories more - but it's hard to tell: I think that "Ghosts" is one of the best & most intense pieces that I've read, but...

He2 wants to know next, why do women fall so much for M4M stories in the first place?

<He4> Some explicit stories are good, but always there is must be emotion to back it up

She9 wonders why she writes explicit scenes

<Host> Well, I could say plumbing issue, but I want to include things like how a man may react differently than most women in romance, too. Good point, She6!

<He1> I'd like to know too, He6, since I can't seem to wrap my mind around the concept of writing a sex scene myself...

<She2> He6. for me it's trying to get into the guys head - what does it feel like from a man's perspective. How might it be different from my mine, how is it the She11e.

<He1> I can DO it, but not write it... yet, anyway...

<He5> ...that may also be my preference for an actual story coming through, over PWP

<Host> Okay, so let's open it to the lady authors - why do you like to write M/M stuff?

<He4> Most men I think are more romantic than in the stories I have read.

<Host> He4 - that's just the kind of stuff we want to know about in this chat - are men usually very romantic? I'm sure it varies.

<She7> but slash was the first nc17 i ever did

He5 imagines the amusement to be had with a male/female/neuter1/neuter2 classification system

She6 asks She9 for the loan of Kronos torture kit

<He4> No, not usually romantic.

<He4> What I read of male written slash is more romantic than female written slash.

<He4> No female writer writes group hugs but male writers do.

<She2> It's a matter of language more than ideology and philosphy He5. I'm always troubled by the ability to make myself understood with the limitations of my language.

<He4> But there is very few. Not many stories with romance written by women

<She6> writes group hugs in stories He4?

<He4> because women are afraid to be soft

<He4> my theory

She6 isn't sure seems to remember a few from women authors

<Host> Oh, great point! Is there a noticeable difference in male written slash than female written slash? I can't really see it, personally.

<He4> don't want to be seen as writing those female books I don't know name of

<He1> really? I think the fandom itself influences the romance quotient. ;) I find a lot of women authored slash stories, very romantic, in the Sentinel fandom...

<She9> I like to write violence and I want a relation that is on an equal power level in the beginning

<He5> Interesting, given a choice along the lines of "Are male writers _more_ or _less_ emotional/empathic in their writing" I would have picked less

<Host> But from what I've heard from women readers, many, many like the romance in their slash!

<He4> The only courting romance story I have read was a Due South one called Urging of a Mountie where Ray is courted by Benny from a long time

<She7> what do you think when a writer feminizes a male character...i know that i generally hate it...

<He6> Three Chears for ANGST!

<He4> He5 - I think that is gay fiction rather than slash

<He5> "Feminizes", SHE7 ?

<He4> I like women so I do not mind feminising

<Host> Yeah, SHE7, that bugs me!

<He4> I don't like it when men are children in stories

<He1> to me, huge difference betwenn what I call j/o stories and slash... ;) Just to throw something else out there...

<She6> As in Eroica SHE7/He5 where Dorian is portrayed very effeminately in some stories?

<He5> I mean, showing male characters in a sensitive moment can be very effective...

<Host> Although, IMO, Blair is begging to be feminized - it's almost canon.

<Host> It can go too far with even Blair, though.

He5 is thinking of the XF ep "Conduit", and the scene with Mulder in the church at the end

<She2> See, and I like m/m stories because I think we see more of the romantic/ loving "feminine" if you insist side of males.

She9 thinks she isn't either the typical slash writer nor the typical slash reader

<She6> what do you like She9 and why?

<He6> QUESTION: Do we tend to feminize one of the pairing? turning them into the female?

<He2> I like Angst-stricken characters, is this feminzed now?

<He4> She2 slash is many times better than gay fiction because it has true characters, but not much wine or roses.

<He5> Otoh, if "feminizing" mean corrupting the character, then I tend to see it as weak writing - bordering "Mary Sue" in this respect: that it's contorting the character into a form that the writer particularly wants to see

<Host> Yes, She2, I agree! I like to see the *softer* side of men come out, yet for the man to stay masculine.

<She7> i mean like -- all of a sudden mulder becomes mary homemaker...he cooks for his man, he cleans for his man, he...whines alot

<She2> SHE7 - tell me this isn't how you see females?

<He2> lol - very unlikely ;)

<He2> No to this sort of thing, She7 :)

<Host> He6, I think that happens a lot...I try not to do it, though, although my Mulder is more the "emotional" one.

<He4> SHE7 I know no women like this in real life

<He4> but I have read Mulder's like that

<Host> Oh, SHE7! Yes! I don't see why Mulder suddenly gets all these domestic instincts just because he's found His Man!

<He5> LOL I'm not sure that I dare walk down that road (of your imagination) She9 ;)

<He6> and which man would that be, Host?

<He5> Somehow, I don't see Mulder suddenly picking up his dirty shorts from off of the coffee table, just because he's got someone new in his life.

<Host> Well, it does usually happen in M/Sk stories, He6.

<She9> I just want them to behave on character.

<He5> For that matter, I hold it as an article of faith that Mulder still considers spaghetti to be a finger-food...

<She9> I hate it when they suddenly behave totally different like on the show.

<He4> I think Mulder may pick up his shorts maybe once at the beginning of the relationship

<Host> LOL, He5!

<She7> in fact i see mulder getting rather irritated if someone else picks up his dirty shorts for him

He5 grins at Host

<He5> Exactly, SHE7! "Goddamn it - how'm I suppose to find those again, when I need them ?!"

She7 brakes out the bibs for He5 and passes him the spaghetti

<He2> Assorted chaos :)

<He7> I find that in much of the M/Sk fiction the roles are unequal, but eh M/K they are more on a par with each other.

<He5> And that's another thing, Host - the male characters in slash need to grunt more ;)

<He1> ugh!!!! ;) how's that, HE5? ;)

<She9> HE5. definitely. more grunts!!

<He6> Hey, I wrote a story where Alex scratched his balls!

<Host> Yes, Mr., one thing I find especially attractive about M/K.

<She7> He5, you and tim allen are the only ones i know who grunt!

<He6> (Alex said they itched for Mulder...)

Host makes note: "Make characters grunt occasionally"

<He5> No fair, He6 - you're a guy, so that kind of natural action on the part of your characters doesn't count :-)

<Host> I do see some M/K "feminizing" Mulder, and sometimes K.

<She7> not much with k as with mulder...or so i've noticed

<Host> Like, making Mulder weepy - is that feminizing, or just being more honest about a man's feelings?

<She7> those pink little sightless, hairless, squirming things...why do you ask?

<She4> At the beginning of M/K, there were a lot of stories feminizing Krycek, probably because he was always letting Mulder wale on him.

<She7> have any of you read 'life among the ashes' series??? now there is a feminized mulder!

<He4> I don't know why she ask. She's gone to bed now. I may soon too.

<He4> Host: Mulder weeps in the show a lot.

<She5> I've read it. I agree!!

<He5> It depends on what he's weeping over, Host. I mean, we're talking about the Mulder who took an FBI case file to do with grave desecrations and an escalating fetishist - when he knew that it was an open&shut case (more or less) - just because he could get tickets for the Redskins' game

<Host> Yeah, He4, good point.

<She4> SHE7: M/K or M/Sk?

She9 didn't read that one

<She7> he weeps, but it doesn't femininze him in the show...he never seems whiny, just needy

<He4> When it is EMMY time, Mulder weeps.

<Host> So does some slash take the canon of Mulder's willingness to cry and *run* with it?

<She7> both

<She2> Why is weeping feminine?

She9 likes weeping Mulder on the show.

<He6> Crying shows vulnerability.

<He5> Well that's just it, She2, it needn't be.

<Host> "LIfe from the Ashes" was mainly M/Sk, where there is a plague that kills off most of the population, and Mulder has a reaction that makes him become more feminine.

<He7> I don't think it is feminini, but maybe men weep in the dark, alone.

<She9> I even like weeping Mulder in stories occasionally. But I don't want to see him weep, because he dropped the eggbeater.

<Host> I am thinking of the right story, right, SHE7?

<He4> I cry at sad movies and sad commercials and am not very feminine

<He5> Vulnerability, He6... you mean, like, when Sean Connery destroys the Ferrari in "The Rock"

<She7> and of course, in this story, he is a nookie magnet...everyone wants him

<Host> Thanks, SHE7!

<He6> what do y'all think of long/multipart stories? Do you prefer short stories?

<Host> SO it was quite a wild situation the author set up, making it IMO excusable to feminize Mulder that way.

<He2> IMO, someone who doesn't fight down and hides his emotions but shows them openly is not weak.

<She6> ok outloud rather than msging it's the / aspects of Laurell K Hamilton's vampire series

<She2> I like to interpret Life from the Ashes as a troy about society's need for a caste system - okay I know, it's a stretch but...

<She6> the last book was very slashy :)

<Host> Mulder gave off pheromones that made all the men want to get after him!

<He4> Long stories in one part

<Host> I agree, Mulder!

<She7> i link longer stories...but i don't read it in parts if i can help it...i wait for all of it

<He1> if the story is good, I want l o n She2... ;) Of course I like other long things too... ;)

<He4> Host I have read that story in skimming but not all of it. That is Mulder the 5 year old child.

<Host> Life from the Ashes, He4? So you thought he was more childlike than feminine?

<She7> to a point, Host...but i still don't see mulder in the kitchen wearing a white frilly apron (like the one i have on) and cooking turkey dinner for the whole brood

He6 has a hard time picturing a domesticated Mulder.

<Host> In a humor story, it could be fun.

<He5> Ok granted, SHE7 - but you have to admit that AnnaB's story "Devil in a New Dress" was outrageously funny !

<He4> Host: the women I know would not be that weak. He seemed more like a small boy seeking his father's guidance.

<He6> let's see. Mulder in high-heels and a frilly white apron, vacuuming. Nope, don't buy it. But maybe Skinner. Yeah, I could picture Skinner that way. <SHE2>

<He2> He6, you don't <eg>

<He4> I have much respect for women. I have never met women like that.

<She7> but it was more like mulder hadn't lost mulder just because he put on a dress...it was just another aspect of his personallity

<He4> I think Mulder would be very pretty in high heels but are they to be made that big? He has most big feet.

<She6> yes they're made but difficult to get hold of and fewer styles

<Host> One of my fave humor stories, non-slash <ducks momentarily>, has Skinner dustbusting and using Pledge on Mulder's casket

<She9> It's easier for me to see Skinner in an apron than Mulder

<He4> No one would dare laugh at Skinner in an apron.

<She6> especially after seeing MP at the Expo She9 and how he was associating with his wife during his pregnancy

<She7> skinner could be domesticated, mulder couldn't

<He4> Jim Ellison wears an apron. It is something a big man can get away with.

<He6> would he have on anything underneath the apron?

<She9> He6 - a cockring

<She6> if a barbecue I'd definitely hope so!

<He1> yeah, unfortunately, He6... :) but in fanfic... ;)

<He5> Now *there's* fodder for a slash story, HE6 !

<She6> what He5? - barbecues or MP?

<He2> In that retrospect, has anyone read "Celebration" - very domesticated, both of them, Mulder & Skinner

She9 rarely reads M/Sk

<He5> HE6: The prospect of Sk fathering a child upon his / lover (via in vitro) a la that Arnold Schwarzenegger movie ;)

<Host> I know I have, Mulder, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

She6 says sorry not an M/Sk person either

<She5> I think I remember that one.

He2 agrees with most statements in this room, but this story is one of his all time favorites.

<Host> I *do* like some domesticated M/Sk stuff; it's kinda nice.

<She2> Isn't that the one that takes place after them being together years?

<She6> but which /lover do we choose for Skinner?

<He2> Yep.

<Host> Can you describe it, He2r?

<She5> I think that one was done pretty well, even though they were domesticated.

<She6> celebration Ahe2? I'll look out for it

<He6> who else is there for SKinner except Mulder?

<She7> two words: baccarak figurines

<He4> Bacharack Figurines is the only story I have seen that address the occasional problem of

<He2> She6: Celebration by A. Leigh-Anne Childe

<He4> post anal intercourse problem

<She9> Hey, I didn't push you off HE6.

<Host> I think domesticate M/Sk is nice, if it's more like an equal sharing of domestic responsibilities.

<She6> oh ok - if Anna wrote it it'll be good

<She2> Post anal intercourse problem?

<He4> Try to think of polite way to say

<He5> Is this like a male menopause issue, or some strange thing like that ?

Host puts arm aroud He2's neck and settles in, getting comfy

<She6> maybe I just do too much housework but domesticated doesn't do anything for me, intimate does

He2 thinks that Skinner and Mulder deserve some "relaxed" moments now and then...

<She7> i have to admit, that i kind of liked BF because it did deal with the realism

<He4> Semen is acid and affects the ph balance inside and can make going to the bathroom necessity

<She9> I hope I won't insult anybody now but...

<She9> I just *HATE* BF

<Host> Thanks!

<He4> It was a badly written technically story, I did not read much of it.

<She5> I like it okay, but I had a hard time imagining Skinner calling anyone Honey

<He5> Yeah, but getting pumped full of air is just part of the equation, She2. It's a neat detail that shows some higher degree of realism, but it doesn't _have_ to be address for a story to work

Host gets up off floor and back into M's lap

<He1> unsure of your question He6... realistic in what way? I delete sections of story dealing with enema prep, all use of condoms, etc...

<^She11> yep! I've got my nick back He5 :)))

<He4> No need always to have enema (I learned that word for AnnaZo). But going to bathroom first is good at least.

<She9> I read slash for the turn on and flatulence doesn't turn me on <She2>

<He1> true, He4... ;)

<He6> Okay, what does turn you on?

<He4> Never go away with someone unless you are on farting aquaintance (Terma/Tunguska thought)

<Host> Yeah..we don't have to spell it all out, right?

<Host> I mean, about stuff like flatulence.

She11 agrees with She9

<He1> anyone write morning breath? Well, then we don't need the other stuff, eh? ;)

He5 offers a grunt of congradulations to ^She11

<Host> LOL, He4!

<She7> i've written morning breath

<He4> Morning breath can be sweet in romantic sense

<Host> I get turned on by detailed descriptions, creativity and variety and spontaneity in a story...among other things.

<He4> I like wake up and partner has

<^She11> in fact going totally against / here if the story is well written it doesn't matter if it's m/f, m/m, f/f

<He4> changed my mind

She9 tells He6 that he should know what turns her on. You beta read for her. <eg>

<He5> Exactly, HE6!

<Host> I like a lot of playfulness and humor in sex scenes

<He1> I won't read m/f or f/f... ;) I don't do very much gen either, that's what the TV is for, gen... ;)

<He5> Fanfic for the story's sake, and not for slash's sake, is what sells me.

<Host> Me neither, He1, although I've written some M/Scully.

<He1> I like mutual participation in the stories... ;) Both top, both bottom, both care how the other feels during, etc...

<She2> I like the preparation stuff when it suggests the emotion

<He6> How about body parts? Are there particular parts of the body that are very erotic for you?

<^She11> well i have preferences but if the writing is good or the idea behind it is, then I'll read

<He2> I tend to more rough turn ons... most importantly, character MUST BE in character.

<He4> yes agree

He5 is a Sartrian existentialist, when it comes to slash: "Essence precedes existence"

<He4> and agre with She2 as well

<Host> I find detailed descriptions of their physical and mental arousal very erotic - not just a play-by-play of where limbs are going, etc.

^She11 tries to remember Torch's Voy story where it isn't clear who the characters are until the very end, and that was a big turnon

<He1> right, agree, SHE2!

<He4> I was to leave now, but do you have any questions?

<She7> is that the one with tuvok and nelix?, She11

<^She11> yes SHE7

<He4> Host - I mean She12. It seems impolite to run when she turns up, but she is gone now

<^She11> something that links you to your partner, exactly some consideration of the other person that is special to them or to you as a couple

<He6> even most PWP's explain why the guys are getting together. You need some motivation/explination.

<Host> Exactly, She11. ;^)

<She7> is shaving the other person considered romantic

<Host> LOL, SHE7! I guess it could be.

<He2> If he falls for it... <yikes ;)>

<^She11> depends on how it is done SHE7

<Host> Oh, shaving where?

<She13> I, for one, often feel like a total ass writing sex that I couldn't possibly have any experience of. Do male readers ever think we're (women) complete idiots? <SHE2>

^She11 assumes we're talking beard here

<She7> beard..yes

<Host> I was thinking elsewhere first, She11!

<He2> Not me... She13, female authors have brought me to slash... years ago.

<She7> i dont really think that shaved genitals are romantic

<Host> Shaving the other's face is *very* romantic, IMO!

Host is feeling faint at the thought

<He2> *That* face, yes, Host <She2>

<He5> It's a novelty thing, isn't it ? A kind of submission to the other's control ?

<She9> In RL it can be nice and in slash I most of the time merely *hate* it. Romantic stories have to be written extremely well, so that I like them,.

<Host> Yes, and a sign of trust, and a show of caring, loving attention to the other.

<^She11> so did I Host (grin) but then thought about it!

<Host> Is there a particular part of your body that is especially sensitive? Uh, maybe aside from the obvious...

<Host> No answers to my body sensitivity question?

<He2> Listen He3, you are always welcome here, as well as the rest of MSF guys.

<Host> Oh, thanks, He6!

Host will offer up the neck, especially near the back of ears

<She13> She9, someone being romantic with you?

<He6> and that indentation at the base of the throat

<He3> sorry my nick is so long..i am Nick btw..if that is better

<She13> I've heard the nipple thing debated before, pro and con...

<She9> Does anybody think I'm weird when I don't like romance???

He5 offers the small of the back, and the part right between the shoulderblades... a lick of moisture there, and a soft breath, and .... ~shivers~ I need to be alone for a moment

^She11 nods at He6's last offering

<He3> i am sorry what was the question?

<Host> Or we could move on to specific parts of "the obvious"...

<^She11> back of the knee

<He2> ears, shoulders, upper arms

<He1> all depends on the people, and the body part being used on the person in question. ;)

<Host> and how it's being stimulated...

<He1> between J&B, every skin cell, with tongue... ;)

<Host> Inside of upper arm...oooohhhh.

<She13> Oh, yes, the upper arm thing....

<He6> any toe suckers here?

She13 raises her hand

Host is feeling faint again...

<He5> Back of the knee's a good one, HE6

<He3> sensitive? hmmm behind my ear..nipples..fingers sucked..

<He3> those are very sensitive spots..

<Host> I'd be a toe sucker if said toes were nice and clean.

<He2> thighs, not "the obvious" yet ;)

<He1> but you're bordering, AM... ;)

<He3> love earlobe being licked or sucked..:)

<^She11> or stroked He3

<He2> ...getting close, I know...

<Host> The crevise between the bottom of a butcheek and the upper thigh

<Host> aaahhh.

<He1> geez, are we getting closer... ;)

<She13> Hey, tickle behind a guy's balls with your tongue and watch him squirm. <eg>

<He2> lower back, butt

<She7> a friend once demonstrated rimming by taking my hand and licking at the webbing between my index and second finger....i thought i was gonna faint

<He5> Which almost brings up the question of that "research" that you were going to do, once upon a time, She13...

<He3> my bf used to lick behind my knees..very nice..

<Host> I've heard many votes in the past for the underside of the shaft, near the base.

<He5> Now *that's* an interesting demonstration, SHE7!

<She13> Just forgot to write down the results...

<She13> Have to reschedule for tonight.

<Host> Oooh, I'm very ticklish there (between the fingers)

<He5> You'll have to figure out a way of recording the experiment, She13 - or the scientific value will be lost altogether

<She7> see, it's something you can try at home....and even more intriging with a friend

<He2> Host, now you are at "the obvious" ;)

<She13> ANYTHING feels better when someone else does it, though, Host. <SHE2>

<He3> rimming She7?

<He3> why not just do it..?

<Host> She13, I'm having quite a lot of fun doing the finger thing myself right now! ;^)

<She7> because....he was gay and i'm not and a female... you see the problem here

<She13> Well, I never said going solo *wasn't* fun... <SHE2>

<Host> {{{She13}}}

She13 giggles

<Host> Okay, I'm going to go out of order a bit...#8: How important is the mental aspect of sex to you? Any games or activities you find especially erotic?

<He2> Oh She9, how very thoughtful <eg>

<He5> <He6les> No doubt you've read Ari's "Fingers" page, She13...

<She13> She's got a lot of *really* astute reasons there....

<He3> i am little confused..are there certain ppl in here who are suppose to be answering these questions?

<He5> I'd say that sex has a 70%/30% balance between the mental and the physical, Host

<She13> The guys are.

<He6> Host has a list of questions for the group, but you're free to interupt whenever you want.

<He5> A - a basic level of effort, often resulting in meeting goals

<Host> Sometimes I think for me it's 95% mental. I'd still get an "A", then.

<He5> B - A satisfactory level of effort that regularly meets the goals

<Host> Like, any "games" or roleplaying or anything like that - is that important?

<He1> He5, is this like Prevert, pervert, and provert? ;)

<He3> sure..playing now and then can be fun

<He3> i mean..i have roleplayed..

<He3> its a change..

<Host> How about focusing that on slash, as well? Like, do you like stories where there's a lot of playfulness and psychological bantering?

<He3> i don't understand the letter system though

<He2> Guess it's very important, mindgames, imaginations and pictures to see yourself in, being topped when the physcial aspect grips, too. Like consensual top/bottom games.

<He3> in slash..sure..whynot put that in it..cause its not common to do..

<Host> I like a lot of creativity, both IRL and in sex scenes in stories

<He1> well... don't know if this falls under Mental aspect... but in first time stories, I like the 'offering' thats involved in being topped... did that make sense?

<Host> First-timestories can be great in that regard.

She1 flops down next to Host

<He1> the willingness to submit, to give of oneself...

<She13> I think we've written, once.

<Host> How about from a top's perspective?

She13 is trying to remember

<Host> It was, what does the top offer up in a first-time experience?

<Host> The bottom has the giving up of control to another...

<He3> really?

<He3> that is what a bottom does?

<He3> hmmmm

<He3> i always thought a good bottom is in control

<He1> Host... the only thing I can think of is understand, gentleness... sort of a weak answer, right? :(

<Host> Dark, well, take your pick from our varied assortment...XF, Sentinel, Highlander...

<She14> What if it's the top's first time?

He2 ponders about the bottom theory

<He6> The backpack includes a Blow Up doll of your choice!

<Host> We have blow-up dolls of every character...

She10 read somewhere that a good top always started as a bottom...

<He3> ur right She10..

<He2> Or is a switch.

<He2> Not "or" but "and"...

<He3> i am both, top or bottom..and not so sure about ur theories

<He6> How do you see it, He3?

Continue to part 2.